varshadas
01-30 03:15 PM
Do we need images? Can't we just have text on a yellow paper with appropriate text highlighted? We want to emphasize on the text. Not sure what value add an image can have unless we have someone standing in a line outside a gc office with window and we could put something like .. another 5 years... The images has to be in sync with the text. I am not for putting a picture of the capitol hill so much. We have to emphasize on the problem. This is just my opinion.
Thanks,
Varsha
Thanks,
Varsha
wallpaper advance irthday wishes greetings. advance irthday wishes greetings. to
unknown123
03-12 02:14 AM
I support.. I've contributed earlier and will contribute again.
I think we should first raise awareness on the problem like I-485 pending for more than 2 years for more than xxx applicants, who played by the rules, paid taxes, etc......
Visa re-capture is one (or may be the only one) solution of above problem.
Just my thought
I think we should first raise awareness on the problem like I-485 pending for more than 2 years for more than xxx applicants, who played by the rules, paid taxes, etc......
Visa re-capture is one (or may be the only one) solution of above problem.
Just my thought
monkeyman
09-27 10:28 AM
I have worked in France and Belgium for a little over an year and this is my personal experience - the work environment at that time 2000 - 01 was alright. However, I had to struggle with language barriers and worse of all - the keyboard barriers. The standards in IT industry were very very different and though it was an experience, the learning curve was huge. Personally, I would much rather prefer to be in US or better still in UAE I'd think.
Next, I have been reading a lot about reverse brain drain - where families were going back home. I also heard about some site about return2India.com. And my brother took the step after pondering over it for an year - he had it all - GC, a family here, job at you know where in Seattle - and his experience has been an enlightment - he is now struggling with work life ratio - he spends most of the day/night at work and he has to pay bills at the bank and he has no clue what is going on at the school and somehow, his team in India thinks he is a smartass because he tries to apply certain standards (which ofcourse is normal here) and he speaks with an accent. And yes, if you studied here and lived for 10 years, you too will have the accent. But, he says he is very satisfied and happy to be there.And then he says, the pay scale is sufficient for him and his family to lead the Indian dream. We should have some way of commuicating with such expatriates too!!!
Next, I have been reading a lot about reverse brain drain - where families were going back home. I also heard about some site about return2India.com. And my brother took the step after pondering over it for an year - he had it all - GC, a family here, job at you know where in Seattle - and his experience has been an enlightment - he is now struggling with work life ratio - he spends most of the day/night at work and he has to pay bills at the bank and he has no clue what is going on at the school and somehow, his team in India thinks he is a smartass because he tries to apply certain standards (which ofcourse is normal here) and he speaks with an accent. And yes, if you studied here and lived for 10 years, you too will have the accent. But, he says he is very satisfied and happy to be there.And then he says, the pay scale is sufficient for him and his family to lead the Indian dream. We should have some way of commuicating with such expatriates too!!!
2011 Birthday Facebook Greeting
digmetalq
04-07 06:35 AM
The POE issue must be taken seriously, God forbid if you have family emergency, and you are on H1B, will you take the risk and travel, and even if you have to when you return you realise that your employer says that he has qualified US citizen from programmers Guild to replace you.
more...
arsh007
02-01 11:38 AM
Looks like there is now an increasing awareness of how Desi Consulting companies are bringing in a bad name to the entire desi population in this country.
Found this email from Google H-1B Group: from
infoprovider_ 2 at yahoo dot com.
Hi,
I would like to inform you about the large scale fraud going in the
technology world today in USA. I know of many small-mid sized IT
consultancies in US, which are founded by Indians. They recruit people
(1) with degrees from various fields, most of the candidates recruited
don't ever have any experience in computers. They train them in some
tools (2) and change the resume totally (3), someone who has knowledge
relevant to the job takes the interview instead of the actual candidate
and they get placed. Ironically, even though these jobs advertisements
say that around 5 years of experience is required, usually someone with
not so high aptitude and limited trainig in that parituclar tool (2)
can manage to sustain in that position, this is very real, these jobs
can be done that way. They manage to get jobs in the biggest of US
companies (4).
This consultancy fraud is know to almost every Indian working in the
technology sector. The consultancies almost don't take any one other
than from India and surronding countires like Bangladesh, Srilanka. 99%
of those i have seen are from India and the remaining 1% from
Bangladesh, Srilanka etc.
How many are doing this?
I believe there would be atleast a few thousands of consultancies.
Wanna find them? SOme of them advertise in Indian content sites such as
sulekha.com. Look at the right hand side of the page
classifieds. sulekha.com
Who is loosing due to this.
If this jobs can be done by someone with no experience in that
technology, can't these be done by those americans who have a better
experience (say 2 years or even 1 year), these folks work sincerely and
go with correct resumes get X dollars where as the fraudsters get 3X -
5X dollars.
I don't say that every one from India are doing this. But a significant
many are doing this. I know around 30 people working in US in
technology sector. Over 20 are working this way. I can confidently say
hundreds of thousands are doing this today and each year at least 50000
(from student pool, dependents pool, directly coming to the
consultancies as H1b workers from India) are joining them. Also, I am
talking about the small to mid sized (1- 1000 people) consultancies not
the big Indian consultancies such as Infosys and TCS.
Solution:
A lot of things can be done. But the simple thing that's easy to
implement by the americans and thus not impede their productivity by
spending too much resources in verifying the authenticity is this
Let the INS provide the details of the H1b holders to the companies
when asked by the companies only (this is similar to letting others
e.g., housing provider, know about one's credit history). So, with the
applicants SSN the companies can see the basic information like when
the applicant has got his H1b approved and the resume submitted by the
applicant with his H1b application (usually not many applicants give a
very wrong resume to the INS while applying for the H1b). This
eliminates almost all the cases of fraudsters (since they can't come to
US today, one or two years ago and say that I have been working here
for 5 years). This is one simple solution, easy to implement.
There are many othere solutions
(1) Whom do they usually recruit
Thousands of students come from India every year to pursue Masters
degree. They come to pursue Master's in various fields, the fields in
which they have done their bachelor's back in India. Only about a
quarter of them manage to get jobs in the fields in which they have
done their Master's as direct employees of the companies. The remaining
join these consultancies as they can easily get jobs through the
consultancies.
Dependents, mostly those who come as spouses (coming as wives). They
might have done some bachelors degree or Masters back in India in some
field. Many of them not in computers. They don't have any experience
there. They can easily be placed by the consultancies.
SOme others pay these consultancies for sponsoring H1b visa. Typically
the consultancies take the fee required for teh application and the
lawyer fee (usually USD 2500-USD3000) . SOme of these cases are those
with experience in IT in India. But significant number of the remaining
are not experienced. Recently I have seen people who have been to other
countries for their studies like Australia and Europe coming through
the consultancies this way. Even most of these guys have no experience
in IT, most experience in no field.
(2) Which technologies they work in
I have seen that the technologies they work in are in which the pay
rates are high (because of lack of skillful people) like SAP,
DataWarehousing tools. They also work in other fields like Testing etc.
There are literally hundreds of thousands of jobs in these fields.
(3) How much is the resume changed
They change the resume totally. Every resume says the person has worked
in US for over 4 years, doesn't matter if it is someone who came for
masters to US an year or two years ago or someone who very recently
came as a wife to someone.
All most everyone's resumes have over 5 years experience where as in
reality almost everyone don't have that much experience. If someone has
that much experience they wouldn't go through these consultants who
take a big fraction of the pay they get from the clients.
Can't it be detected?
No, in most cases its hard (expensive) for the recruiters (the clients)
to find the authenticity of the resumes submitted. There is no proof
that these resumes are authentic. Just in case some references are
needed the consultancies give a dummy reference, and some phone number
(they can ask some contacts, their acquiantainces working in some
companies to take the call,if at all they feel that the client will
find out from the phone number which company does this phone number
belongs to, but most of the client companies don't go that far too, so
a guy's mobile number who is working in the consultancy itself can be
given as referencees contact number). It is hard to remember the voice
by the interviewer after a few days of the intrview and usually these
candidates join at least after a week after taking the interview (even
if the candidate joins in 3 days, its hard to remember the voice as the
interviewer usually interacts with many people (particularly they being
in team lead or managerial positions)
(4) I personally know people working in Microsoft, IBM, TEK systems,
Cingular, Amazon, Accenture, Citigroup etc. This says such people are
working in almost every technology company in USA
So then, how is an American, like me, who spent tens of thousands of
dollars to get thru 3 yrs. in a technical school that ended with a
Bachelor degree in Science with Computer Information Systems, with
honors, supposed to get a job in the IT community while these
fraudulent (most likely illegal alien Indians) take the positions away
from me? I worked my a$$ off studying hard, working hard, worked at
the school, even took an extra course study in computer hardware
configurations, and STILL, these IT companies DON'T want to even speak
to me because they OUTSOURCE from these FRAUDS! How FAIR is
that???!!!
Found this email from Google H-1B Group: from
infoprovider_ 2 at yahoo dot com.
Hi,
I would like to inform you about the large scale fraud going in the
technology world today in USA. I know of many small-mid sized IT
consultancies in US, which are founded by Indians. They recruit people
(1) with degrees from various fields, most of the candidates recruited
don't ever have any experience in computers. They train them in some
tools (2) and change the resume totally (3), someone who has knowledge
relevant to the job takes the interview instead of the actual candidate
and they get placed. Ironically, even though these jobs advertisements
say that around 5 years of experience is required, usually someone with
not so high aptitude and limited trainig in that parituclar tool (2)
can manage to sustain in that position, this is very real, these jobs
can be done that way. They manage to get jobs in the biggest of US
companies (4).
This consultancy fraud is know to almost every Indian working in the
technology sector. The consultancies almost don't take any one other
than from India and surronding countires like Bangladesh, Srilanka. 99%
of those i have seen are from India and the remaining 1% from
Bangladesh, Srilanka etc.
How many are doing this?
I believe there would be atleast a few thousands of consultancies.
Wanna find them? SOme of them advertise in Indian content sites such as
sulekha.com. Look at the right hand side of the page
classifieds. sulekha.com
Who is loosing due to this.
If this jobs can be done by someone with no experience in that
technology, can't these be done by those americans who have a better
experience (say 2 years or even 1 year), these folks work sincerely and
go with correct resumes get X dollars where as the fraudsters get 3X -
5X dollars.
I don't say that every one from India are doing this. But a significant
many are doing this. I know around 30 people working in US in
technology sector. Over 20 are working this way. I can confidently say
hundreds of thousands are doing this today and each year at least 50000
(from student pool, dependents pool, directly coming to the
consultancies as H1b workers from India) are joining them. Also, I am
talking about the small to mid sized (1- 1000 people) consultancies not
the big Indian consultancies such as Infosys and TCS.
Solution:
A lot of things can be done. But the simple thing that's easy to
implement by the americans and thus not impede their productivity by
spending too much resources in verifying the authenticity is this
Let the INS provide the details of the H1b holders to the companies
when asked by the companies only (this is similar to letting others
e.g., housing provider, know about one's credit history). So, with the
applicants SSN the companies can see the basic information like when
the applicant has got his H1b approved and the resume submitted by the
applicant with his H1b application (usually not many applicants give a
very wrong resume to the INS while applying for the H1b). This
eliminates almost all the cases of fraudsters (since they can't come to
US today, one or two years ago and say that I have been working here
for 5 years). This is one simple solution, easy to implement.
There are many othere solutions
(1) Whom do they usually recruit
Thousands of students come from India every year to pursue Masters
degree. They come to pursue Master's in various fields, the fields in
which they have done their bachelor's back in India. Only about a
quarter of them manage to get jobs in the fields in which they have
done their Master's as direct employees of the companies. The remaining
join these consultancies as they can easily get jobs through the
consultancies.
Dependents, mostly those who come as spouses (coming as wives). They
might have done some bachelors degree or Masters back in India in some
field. Many of them not in computers. They don't have any experience
there. They can easily be placed by the consultancies.
SOme others pay these consultancies for sponsoring H1b visa. Typically
the consultancies take the fee required for teh application and the
lawyer fee (usually USD 2500-USD3000) . SOme of these cases are those
with experience in IT in India. But significant number of the remaining
are not experienced. Recently I have seen people who have been to other
countries for their studies like Australia and Europe coming through
the consultancies this way. Even most of these guys have no experience
in IT, most experience in no field.
(2) Which technologies they work in
I have seen that the technologies they work in are in which the pay
rates are high (because of lack of skillful people) like SAP,
DataWarehousing tools. They also work in other fields like Testing etc.
There are literally hundreds of thousands of jobs in these fields.
(3) How much is the resume changed
They change the resume totally. Every resume says the person has worked
in US for over 4 years, doesn't matter if it is someone who came for
masters to US an year or two years ago or someone who very recently
came as a wife to someone.
All most everyone's resumes have over 5 years experience where as in
reality almost everyone don't have that much experience. If someone has
that much experience they wouldn't go through these consultants who
take a big fraction of the pay they get from the clients.
Can't it be detected?
No, in most cases its hard (expensive) for the recruiters (the clients)
to find the authenticity of the resumes submitted. There is no proof
that these resumes are authentic. Just in case some references are
needed the consultancies give a dummy reference, and some phone number
(they can ask some contacts, their acquiantainces working in some
companies to take the call,if at all they feel that the client will
find out from the phone number which company does this phone number
belongs to, but most of the client companies don't go that far too, so
a guy's mobile number who is working in the consultancy itself can be
given as referencees contact number). It is hard to remember the voice
by the interviewer after a few days of the intrview and usually these
candidates join at least after a week after taking the interview (even
if the candidate joins in 3 days, its hard to remember the voice as the
interviewer usually interacts with many people (particularly they being
in team lead or managerial positions)
(4) I personally know people working in Microsoft, IBM, TEK systems,
Cingular, Amazon, Accenture, Citigroup etc. This says such people are
working in almost every technology company in USA
So then, how is an American, like me, who spent tens of thousands of
dollars to get thru 3 yrs. in a technical school that ended with a
Bachelor degree in Science with Computer Information Systems, with
honors, supposed to get a job in the IT community while these
fraudulent (most likely illegal alien Indians) take the positions away
from me? I worked my a$$ off studying hard, working hard, worked at
the school, even took an extra course study in computer hardware
configurations, and STILL, these IT companies DON'T want to even speak
to me because they OUTSOURCE from these FRAUDS! How FAIR is
that???!!!
[uber]
03-12 11:46 AM
its still a tie between Eilsoe and Thirdworldman...
i voted Eilsoe because the surv. cam was a cool concept...
thirdworldman... you almost got the vote.. but for the fact that no train could travel the curve.... but supreme job regardless...
i voted Eilsoe because the surv. cam was a cool concept...
thirdworldman... you almost got the vote.. but for the fact that no train could travel the curve.... but supreme job regardless...
more...
conundrum
11-06 11:56 AM
btw, I didn't notarize my letter. I faxed in the FOIA request.
2010 Belated Birthday Wishes
bfadlia
02-03 12:37 PM
Guys,
I know ROW country may not like this thread, but look at EB-3 India or China, put yourself in our shoes and than you may realize how unfair this country is. In this unprecedented financial turmoil, I feel there are very remote chances for CIR or any package which increase immigration etc would pass, I am taking this initiative to gather as many people I can and go to washington. Again this is not an IV effort. If you are with me , you can spare some time or few days in Washington, please PM me. our sole agenda is bring a 2 line bill to remove country quota...
Didn't we have these discussions over and over before? and the admins telling us to stop because IV goals are set and will not change?
If you just want to argue and waste time, lookup previous threads discussing this and you'll have enough reading material for weeks to come.
I know ROW country may not like this thread, but look at EB-3 India or China, put yourself in our shoes and than you may realize how unfair this country is. In this unprecedented financial turmoil, I feel there are very remote chances for CIR or any package which increase immigration etc would pass, I am taking this initiative to gather as many people I can and go to washington. Again this is not an IV effort. If you are with me , you can spare some time or few days in Washington, please PM me. our sole agenda is bring a 2 line bill to remove country quota...
Didn't we have these discussions over and over before? and the admins telling us to stop because IV goals are set and will not change?
If you just want to argue and waste time, lookup previous threads discussing this and you'll have enough reading material for weeks to come.
more...
sreedhar
03-16 12:51 PM
My Friend...Applied his Labor on EB-2 in MAR 2005. His labor approved and applied I-140 & I-485 in AUG 2007. His I-140 Got approved. He said his lawyer accidentally filed his I-140 in EB-3. Because his I-140 approved notice Type has the message like "Skilled Worker or Professional, Sec. 203(b) (3) (A) (i) or (ii)". Is this is true....? Thanks for early reply.
hair Hindi Scrap/ Greetings
new_horizon
03-10 07:23 PM
I'll be flying in to BWI on Sat 2nd night, and have booked a 2 bed hotel room for 3 nights. The hotel is close to the BWI and MARC/Amtrac station, with frequent trains to Union Station DC. If anyone would like to share the hotel room, pls send me a personal message. Thanks.
more...
danu2007
11-20 10:54 PM
Today I got the second letter from USCIS regarding this request. The letter says they accepted the request and put in the pending que.
Also the letter says, "your request is deemed to constitute an agreement to pay any fees that may be chargeable up to $25.00" and continues and finally it says "most requests do not require any fees and if fees in excess of $25.00 are required, we will notify you beforehand"
Jusy wondering any one got this reply..
Also the letter says, "your request is deemed to constitute an agreement to pay any fees that may be chargeable up to $25.00" and continues and finally it says "most requests do not require any fees and if fees in excess of $25.00 are required, we will notify you beforehand"
Jusy wondering any one got this reply..
hot A warm B#39;day wish
no538
06-06 04:37 PM
Thanks for the info amitpan007.
That must have been a big surprise for you to see the Approval then?
I was under the impression that you'll start seeing continuous LUD's on your application before the approval.
Everyday I check my app and be disappointed that there is no LUD and wait for tomorrow.
That must have been a big surprise for you to see the Approval then?
I was under the impression that you'll start seeing continuous LUD's on your application before the approval.
Everyday I check my app and be disappointed that there is no LUD and wait for tomorrow.
more...
house Greetings Card - Birthday
logiclife
01-16 10:44 AM
We sent out a newsletter last night and out of 8400 emails, we have nearly 250 bounced back.
Emails like a@abc.com are obviously bogus emails.
See, I can understand the reason for that, you dont want spam. But we send out newsletter less than 2-3 times a month. And we dont sell information.
So please update your email addresses. So that we can reach you when we send out action alerts like "Call or webfax this or that congressional office".
Thanks.
Emails like a@abc.com are obviously bogus emails.
See, I can understand the reason for that, you dont want spam. But we send out newsletter less than 2-3 times a month. And we dont sell information.
So please update your email addresses. So that we can reach you when we send out action alerts like "Call or webfax this or that congressional office".
Thanks.
tattoo Scraps123 Birthday Wishes In
amitps
09-26 01:48 PM
People - Damage control has been done....
This is another win for IV ......
This is another win for IV ......
more...
pictures belated irthday wishes
chanduv23
09-11 04:28 PM
Yes - lot of people are making last minute plans - GO IV GO
dresses advance irthday wishes greetings. advance irthday wishes greetings.
crazyghoda
01-30 12:13 PM
No I didnt inform USCIS about job change. The lawyer who handled the H1 transfer from my GC sponsoring employer to the (laying off) employer suggested that there was no need to and we could respond to an RFE if it ever happened. He said that USCIS doesnt do anything with the letter and never truly match it up and so I let it go.
more...
makeup elated irthday wishes
Canadian_Dream
11-17 12:44 PM
That's probably the path most people with (EB3 2003 onwards/EB2 2004 onwards) will take from now on. The only hurdle is there is no clarity about the law regarding H1B extensions granted on an approved I-140. Most people have run out of H1B and will have to change jobs on the extensions. I hope USCIS issues a clear guidance on this issue. Also you might not have to let go of the priority date if your company is kind enough.
girlfriend irthday wishes greetings.
raydon
12-13 11:33 AM
Don't know whether to rely on the dates in the visa bulletin. My colleague who is EB3 China with a PD of 2004 got his I-485 approved recently. The dates on the visa bulletin show EB3 China to be June 2002. Wonder of wonders, that is the USCIS.
Btw, I shook his hand, hoping that some of his incredible luck would rub off on me. Just kidding - it was to congratulate him on his newly attained freedom.:)
Btw, I shook his hand, hoping that some of his incredible luck would rub off on me. Just kidding - it was to congratulate him on his newly attained freedom.:)
hairstyles +irthday+wishes+greetings
MDix
02-07 10:28 PM
Very good point for removing country cap.
Some questions to those who are supporting country cap.
Why not put a country cap on foreign students� visas since many of them get into the green card line eventually?
Why not put a country cap on H1B visas since many of them get into the green card line eventually?
Why not put a country cap on labor certifications?
Why not put a country cap on I-140s?
Why not impose a country cap at the port of entry?
Why not put a country cap on visitors� visas?
Why not put a country cap on business visas?
Why not put a country cap on US trade with other countries?
Why not put a country cap on amount of US $ reserves that each country can have?
Why not put a country cap on children that foreigners in the US can bear?
Why not put a country cap on the foreigners� earnings in the US?
.
.
.
And the list can go on.
Putting country cap on greens cards serves a hidden racist agenda of not letting the people of one particular ethnic group grow in number and become strong.
Some questions to those who are supporting country cap.
Why not put a country cap on foreign students� visas since many of them get into the green card line eventually?
Why not put a country cap on H1B visas since many of them get into the green card line eventually?
Why not put a country cap on labor certifications?
Why not put a country cap on I-140s?
Why not impose a country cap at the port of entry?
Why not put a country cap on visitors� visas?
Why not put a country cap on business visas?
Why not put a country cap on US trade with other countries?
Why not put a country cap on amount of US $ reserves that each country can have?
Why not put a country cap on children that foreigners in the US can bear?
Why not put a country cap on the foreigners� earnings in the US?
.
.
.
And the list can go on.
Putting country cap on greens cards serves a hidden racist agenda of not letting the people of one particular ethnic group grow in number and become strong.
gg10004
03-17 07:07 PM
PD September 2002 EB3 India
priderock
04-10 04:12 PM
How about sending back all H1Bs ? If there is no cheap labor around , the salaries for all others (Citizens and GC holders) go up. I so want to see 250 an hour rates.
Applying your logic , you should get a job in your home country if you are smart enough.
If you want a good discussion on a topic stop generalizing things and do not use rants like racist engineers etc. When you make an assumption please be clear about. You have assumed most people work for consulting companies and most people are frustrated with it. Not so. I don't work for them and I am not frustrated with them. My only concern with them is they are exploiting the system to their advantage and at my cost. This has two fold affect not only the take cut from your salary but also put a bad name to H1B visa program in general. Whoever wrote the bill or whatever are the consequences there is definitely some good things in that bill. Let me list out how some provisions are good:
1. If you are employable in US and you have the skills you will get the job with or without these middlemen. They come into picture only because they can start a corporation and then start the exploitation game. If a bill is taking these guys out what's wrong with it ? This will allow genuine corporations to hire the right candidates.
2. Putting 30 days of ad. to hire US citizens first ? What's wrong with it ? If their skills are really outdated and you are the best and the brightest you will get the job.
If you need more evidence of why H1B program needs reform look no further than H1B cap used up on first day. This has put good undue hard ship for good candidates while Infosys/Wipro etc will once again take the lion's share of H1B numbers. Why do you want them to win at your cost ? Stop calling people affected by this mess as "Racist Engineers". Try to put yourself in their shoes and some of these practices are affecting both the H1B visa holders (with indentured servitude) and citizens with wage depression. No body wins in the end but the people who are exploiting the system.
Applying your logic , you should get a job in your home country if you are smart enough.
If you want a good discussion on a topic stop generalizing things and do not use rants like racist engineers etc. When you make an assumption please be clear about. You have assumed most people work for consulting companies and most people are frustrated with it. Not so. I don't work for them and I am not frustrated with them. My only concern with them is they are exploiting the system to their advantage and at my cost. This has two fold affect not only the take cut from your salary but also put a bad name to H1B visa program in general. Whoever wrote the bill or whatever are the consequences there is definitely some good things in that bill. Let me list out how some provisions are good:
1. If you are employable in US and you have the skills you will get the job with or without these middlemen. They come into picture only because they can start a corporation and then start the exploitation game. If a bill is taking these guys out what's wrong with it ? This will allow genuine corporations to hire the right candidates.
2. Putting 30 days of ad. to hire US citizens first ? What's wrong with it ? If their skills are really outdated and you are the best and the brightest you will get the job.
If you need more evidence of why H1B program needs reform look no further than H1B cap used up on first day. This has put good undue hard ship for good candidates while Infosys/Wipro etc will once again take the lion's share of H1B numbers. Why do you want them to win at your cost ? Stop calling people affected by this mess as "Racist Engineers". Try to put yourself in their shoes and some of these practices are affecting both the H1B visa holders (with indentured servitude) and citizens with wage depression. No body wins in the end but the people who are exploiting the system.