psaxena
11-19 11:09 AM
Are you the one who created the slogan, move ahead we are behind you... !! (and will always be behind without giving any support)
Why don't you file the lawsuit, why do you look up to someone to do what you want??
Just want get everything in the world without doing anything and that too FREE??
Step up and do something rather than just pushing everyone around.
There is a lot I can say about , but then the fine line of the difference between you and me will be no more. So I leave this conversation right here!! Hope this shakes up your conscious if you got one.
Did you file the lawsuit yet?
Someone please update on the lawsuit to enforce visa spill over
Why don't you file the lawsuit, why do you look up to someone to do what you want??
Just want get everything in the world without doing anything and that too FREE??
Step up and do something rather than just pushing everyone around.
There is a lot I can say about , but then the fine line of the difference between you and me will be no more. So I leave this conversation right here!! Hope this shakes up your conscious if you got one.
Did you file the lawsuit yet?
Someone please update on the lawsuit to enforce visa spill over
wallpaper Samsung wallpapers Download
reachinus
07-16 06:56 PM
Numbers USA already working to block the SKIL Bill. Please see my reply to them for the problems that they are sending to Senator.
Hi There,
If you don't know how the H1B Visa works first educate your self and then give the facts to the senators. I am not sure where you get this info.
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
So u say that people on H1 should not have wife and children????
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
You people eat on the taxes that we pay and leave once our 6 years are compelte. Can you show where and how the H1B's are tax exempt.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
H1B's cannot take any job as they like first they have to get the H1 processed by that company that is willing to employ them. If you don't know how H1B works then educate your self by going thru the requirements for the H1B.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
What do you mean by that???
Hi There,
If you don't know how the H1B Visa works first educate your self and then give the facts to the senators. I am not sure where you get this info.
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
So u say that people on H1 should not have wife and children????
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
You people eat on the taxes that we pay and leave once our 6 years are compelte. Can you show where and how the H1B's are tax exempt.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
H1B's cannot take any job as they like first they have to get the H1 processed by that company that is willing to employ them. If you don't know how H1B works then educate your self by going thru the requirements for the H1B.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
What do you mean by that???
Indirant
02-20 09:12 PM
Hi Guys when are you meeting in Durga temple Let me know I can come with some of my friends
Sekar
Sekar
2011 wallpapers for mobile samsung
actaccord
02-17 08:36 AM
one of the reason I would like Core Team to consider sending email about the Advocacy Day.... that email will get more inactive member like Chandu who got greened and has no good reason (nothing wrong abt it...most of us do the same) to continue visiting IV. Please consider sending one email on Feb and March.
If someone gets out because of this email I am sure he/she is not going to work on any IV activities even if IV never sent any email. Those members join IV just for some free advice and nothing else.
Pappu & StarRun consider this request and let us know where we stand on this. I had collected some content from this forum for flyers ( decided not to pursue further after discussion and advice from StarRun).
On side note, I agree with Chandu regarding convincing our spouse on these kind of expense and participation is really tough a job. We have bought up by teaching/preaching any activities other than studying (for grownups working) is not worth it.
I agree with you. I thought about it and decided to come to DC. I was greened last year and definitely IV was a very big factor in my GC journey. I have not been logging onto IV for a while as I have been very busy with my personal life, and job tensions, kid etc.. and all sorts of other things.
After GC, your life usually changes only if you want it to change. I am still in the process of understanding how best to change. As of now, nothing changed - not even my job :).
I am surprised that people still do not want to help themselves. I see everyone looking at the visa bulletin and getting frustrated, but why do people n ot take the extra step?, I really don't understand. I urge members to come forward and help yourselves. - Please.
If someone gets out because of this email I am sure he/she is not going to work on any IV activities even if IV never sent any email. Those members join IV just for some free advice and nothing else.
Pappu & StarRun consider this request and let us know where we stand on this. I had collected some content from this forum for flyers ( decided not to pursue further after discussion and advice from StarRun).
On side note, I agree with Chandu regarding convincing our spouse on these kind of expense and participation is really tough a job. We have bought up by teaching/preaching any activities other than studying (for grownups working) is not worth it.
I agree with you. I thought about it and decided to come to DC. I was greened last year and definitely IV was a very big factor in my GC journey. I have not been logging onto IV for a while as I have been very busy with my personal life, and job tensions, kid etc.. and all sorts of other things.
After GC, your life usually changes only if you want it to change. I am still in the process of understanding how best to change. As of now, nothing changed - not even my job :).
I am surprised that people still do not want to help themselves. I see everyone looking at the visa bulletin and getting frustrated, but why do people n ot take the extra step?, I really don't understand. I urge members to come forward and help yourselves. - Please.
more...
amsgc
02-04 10:08 AM
...
desi3933
03-09 01:04 PM
spillover happens only when there are more EB based visas available than the number actually issued in the last quarter,
People who don't believe the slow movement should get reality check done.
I am getting Red for this. Great.
People who don't believe the slow movement should get reality check done.
I am getting Red for this. Great.
more...
ronhira
04-10 10:40 AM
Time and again I am telling. EB 3 problem is due to 245(i) cases. Once 245(i) primaries are over, their dependent will come into the picture, who are waiting back home. All 245(i) cases have PD before April 2001. For time being, EB3 I or Mexico move beyond April 01 but again retrogress back to the April 01 when cases are accumulate at CP. This is the reason why EB3 I and Mexico is not moving since last many years.
If some one is not convince with me, request under FOIA
1. How many cases filed under 245(i) in India, Mexico, and ROW
2. How many cases filed under I 824 Follow to Join since 2007?
what r u...... y don't u file foia to prove your twisted racist theories.... y r u always attacking mexican immigrants or 245(i)...... 245(i) was a LEGAL provision in the law...... who made that law..... congress....... assuming any merit to u'r racist theory.... y r u faulting the people who filed 245(i)..... y not fault the congress for passing 245(i) & not passing immigration bill....
If some one is not convince with me, request under FOIA
1. How many cases filed under 245(i) in India, Mexico, and ROW
2. How many cases filed under I 824 Follow to Join since 2007?
what r u...... y don't u file foia to prove your twisted racist theories.... y r u always attacking mexican immigrants or 245(i)...... 245(i) was a LEGAL provision in the law...... who made that law..... congress....... assuming any merit to u'r racist theory.... y r u faulting the people who filed 245(i)..... y not fault the congress for passing 245(i) & not passing immigration bill....
2010 Free Mobile Wallpapers – Cell
.jpg "wallpapers for corby mobile.")
tapukakababa
07-18 11:30 AM
I checked with someone who has hired Rajiv Khanna and they said the same thing to him. So far, they have not generated any rejection notice for any application filed on and after July 2nd. Since this came from Rajiv Khanna I would think that it's some what credible information.
We will just have to wait and see till our checks get cashed!
see my earlier post
We will just have to wait and see till our checks get cashed!
see my earlier post
more...
senthil1
06-13 09:40 AM
I am not supporting consulting ban on h1bs. But even that happens companies will readjust by hiring permanent people. Also big consulting companies will bring more people by L1 and B1. I am working in a consulting company and they do not depend on H1bs though considerable H1bs are there.Still H1b Cap will be reached there is heavy demand for h1b. Also I do not think it is outright ban of H1Bs in consulting. They will allow some form of consulting and they may ban subcontracting in H1b. It depends on how USCIS interprets the law. I hope Congress will not do if anything is bad for country. Infact same rule is there in L1 also. But still I am seeing persons are placed in client sites.
Of course anti immigrants are trying to block H1b program using this but congress trying this because abuses are more in consulting. When congress realizes this anytime they will remove this restriction if they find some other alternative.
Now chances of CIR is 30% and 60% chance of statusquo for another 2 years. Even skil bill is passed seperately same restrictions will come as same Senators will be there.
Some of abuses are
1. Not paying bench
2. Lower pay compared to market
3. illegal agreements
4. Rotation of people and using H1b for outsourcing(It is not abuse but it is not the purpose of H1b)
5. Giving ads for recruiting only H1bs
Let us analyze this thing in depth.
a) According to the restriction which stops consulting
New york city--- Desi Companies will be affected. They will not be able bring H1-B.
CDI, RCG, Bearing Point, Datanomics, .... ..... ... .. there are 1000s of middle vendor which supply the Desi labor to the Wall street companies and more.
I am just talking about NYC. These laborer comes from desi comapnies.
With restriction...desi cannot bring H1-B..the middle vendors are screwed and hence the clients. Due you have an idea how many Indians work for the financial companies that are not a direct hire.
If you stop consulting Wall street's wall will fall. The work that a desi can do in 1 day an american would take three days. At least in my company they have realized it.
You answer this
Of course anti immigrants are trying to block H1b program using this but congress trying this because abuses are more in consulting. When congress realizes this anytime they will remove this restriction if they find some other alternative.
Now chances of CIR is 30% and 60% chance of statusquo for another 2 years. Even skil bill is passed seperately same restrictions will come as same Senators will be there.
Some of abuses are
1. Not paying bench
2. Lower pay compared to market
3. illegal agreements
4. Rotation of people and using H1b for outsourcing(It is not abuse but it is not the purpose of H1b)
5. Giving ads for recruiting only H1bs
Let us analyze this thing in depth.
a) According to the restriction which stops consulting
New york city--- Desi Companies will be affected. They will not be able bring H1-B.
CDI, RCG, Bearing Point, Datanomics, .... ..... ... .. there are 1000s of middle vendor which supply the Desi labor to the Wall street companies and more.
I am just talking about NYC. These laborer comes from desi comapnies.
With restriction...desi cannot bring H1-B..the middle vendors are screwed and hence the clients. Due you have an idea how many Indians work for the financial companies that are not a direct hire.
If you stop consulting Wall street's wall will fall. The work that a desi can do in 1 day an american would take three days. At least in my company they have realized it.
You answer this
hair wallpapers for mobile samsung
logiclife
06-30 06:22 PM
The current events starting from a rumor has caused frustration in our members. The news coming out of AILA got us into action and we are working on trying to prevent this visa bulletin disaster to happen for our members. Due to weekend, There are less opportunities to pursue but we are not taking this as an excuse and please know that IV is working this weekend and have been working ever since we heard about this news and are using all measures and contacts at the appropriate levels of government to help our members. At this time we do not have a conclusive outcome for our members as the efforts are continuing. The efforts are in full swing and will continue until the bulletin comes out. We are prepared to make efforts on Monday when the offices open.
Be assured we are considering all options. We are also working with like minded organizations and on
our own to prevent this disaster to happen for our members. IV is committed to pursue measures in case of any
visa bulletin that will change the current dates.
Please be patient and continue to support us. We will continue to update on the website as we have any more
update to share. The DOS's actions, USCIS actions and the resulting litigation from USCIS or other plaintiffs will take time to materialize and core group will post updates and action items as soon as there is something actionable that we wish for all our members to participate.
Please continue with your 485 filing process and file your 485 as soon as possible. Do not be late and do not postpone or slow down your 485 filing work due to rumors or other fears. Keep doing what you are doing.
IV may post update about its course of action as early as Sunday evening.
IV team
Be assured we are considering all options. We are also working with like minded organizations and on
our own to prevent this disaster to happen for our members. IV is committed to pursue measures in case of any
visa bulletin that will change the current dates.
Please be patient and continue to support us. We will continue to update on the website as we have any more
update to share. The DOS's actions, USCIS actions and the resulting litigation from USCIS or other plaintiffs will take time to materialize and core group will post updates and action items as soon as there is something actionable that we wish for all our members to participate.
Please continue with your 485 filing process and file your 485 as soon as possible. Do not be late and do not postpone or slow down your 485 filing work due to rumors or other fears. Keep doing what you are doing.
IV may post update about its course of action as early as Sunday evening.
IV team
more...
singhsa3
03-05 07:08 PM
Thank You Kutra and Pegaus03
I will keep folks posted on the direction this campaign is taking.
I will keep folks posted on the direction this campaign is taking.
hot mobile samsung. wallpapers
thirdworldman
02-23 03:04 PM
I haven't forgotten, but I haven't had time either. I'm going away for the weekend and won't be able to work on it until after Monday.
more...
house wallpapers for mobile samsung
Openarms
12-08 03:04 PM
Did anybody get actual response from USCIS yet??
tattoo Wallpapers For Mobile Samsung
deepimpact
09-10 08:50 PM
It is a given that Demand is not stagnant . If it were , backlog would have been reduced by 140K this year alone.
Each year the new quota is 140K , as long as the new demand each year ~100K - the remaining 40K goes towards backlog elimination . We will know in the next inventory report what is "net" reduction for 2010. One can do rough math of latest inventory report and the current priority dates to arrive at ~approximate figure of 35-40K.
I think EB3 should get cleared in next 5 years - I think flood of new EB2 applications are overblown.
I think "peak demand" was between 2003 and 2007 . Good news is USCIS is no more wasting numbers .
Given that change to laws is almost impossible. We should sit tight and wait for 3-5 years.
The problem with your analysis is not every one in the backlog has equal access to excess of 35-40K visas available each year. Most of the excess comes from EB4,5,1 and 2ROW and all goes to EB2 I/C. EB3 ROW gets ~30K every year (42K- 4*2.8K).
Even if we are to assume that post 2007 the demand for EB2 I/C and EB3 is low then also it is ~ 15K for EB2 I/C and ~ 10K for EB3 ROW. But the way INA law is framed EB3 I (most backlogged with ~ 60K) will only get 2800 visa till either of EB2 I/C or EB3 row becomes current. And by current I mean real current, not July 2007. Using these numbers it will still take 4-5 for both EB2 I/C and EB3 Row to become current.
This is assuming low demand in all EB categories continue.
It will be only after 2014-15 that EB3I will get ~ 50K SOFAD(35K SOFAD which EB2 I/C was getting plus about 15K from EB3 ROW category). So in 2015 EB3 I will see a jump of ~ 4 yrs (2003-2007). So EB3I folks with PD after 2007 will have a relative wait time of ~ 8 yrs but folks from 2003-4 are looking at a 12-13 year wait unless reform like Recapture/STEM Degree holders & Dependents excluded from cap is passed.
Each year the new quota is 140K , as long as the new demand each year ~100K - the remaining 40K goes towards backlog elimination . We will know in the next inventory report what is "net" reduction for 2010. One can do rough math of latest inventory report and the current priority dates to arrive at ~approximate figure of 35-40K.
I think EB3 should get cleared in next 5 years - I think flood of new EB2 applications are overblown.
I think "peak demand" was between 2003 and 2007 . Good news is USCIS is no more wasting numbers .
Given that change to laws is almost impossible. We should sit tight and wait for 3-5 years.
The problem with your analysis is not every one in the backlog has equal access to excess of 35-40K visas available each year. Most of the excess comes from EB4,5,1 and 2ROW and all goes to EB2 I/C. EB3 ROW gets ~30K every year (42K- 4*2.8K).
Even if we are to assume that post 2007 the demand for EB2 I/C and EB3 is low then also it is ~ 15K for EB2 I/C and ~ 10K for EB3 ROW. But the way INA law is framed EB3 I (most backlogged with ~ 60K) will only get 2800 visa till either of EB2 I/C or EB3 row becomes current. And by current I mean real current, not July 2007. Using these numbers it will still take 4-5 for both EB2 I/C and EB3 Row to become current.
This is assuming low demand in all EB categories continue.
It will be only after 2014-15 that EB3I will get ~ 50K SOFAD(35K SOFAD which EB2 I/C was getting plus about 15K from EB3 ROW category). So in 2015 EB3 I will see a jump of ~ 4 yrs (2003-2007). So EB3I folks with PD after 2007 will have a relative wait time of ~ 8 yrs but folks from 2003-4 are looking at a 12-13 year wait unless reform like Recapture/STEM Degree holders & Dependents excluded from cap is passed.
more...
pictures Samsung Star Mobile Wallpaper
CADude
07-23 11:17 PM
is she using her own FAQ? USCIS FAQ has different question at Q9.
So does my lawyer per the FAQ she sent earlier:
Q9: My adjustment was already filed. Do I have to re-file now?
A: No. If the adjustment was already filed, USCIS will retain and formally accept the filing.
So does my lawyer per the FAQ she sent earlier:
Q9: My adjustment was already filed. Do I have to re-file now?
A: No. If the adjustment was already filed, USCIS will retain and formally accept the filing.
dresses wallpapers for mobile samsung
gc_bulgaria
09-27 10:24 AM
While we are trying our best to fix a broken system and brace ourselves, lets take a look at what is happening in other parts of the world.
European Union is introducing a Blue Card that will allow you to work in any of the EU coountries
Euro value is rising against dollar
Opportunities will be on the rise with strengthening the currency.
Lets run this thread for sharing views, opinions, experiences and anything related to the EU
Chanduv23: Right now it is just a proposal and as the article says, many rich European countries are not willing to take in immigrants. Forget about Asian or African immigrants, they are reluctant to let even Romanians and Bulgarians work in their countries (although they are part of EU now). Racism is much higher in many of those countries and I was recently reading an article about getting PD in Switzerland - basically communities vote in favor or against and if you are not "white" it�s very hard to get that vote.
The reason this threads interests me is because I am an Indian national married to a Bulgarian and we live and work in the US. EU is the next option for us if this GC drags on too long. Technically I can work anywhere in the EU including UK but I am not sure if it will be easy enough to find a job � America still has the best opportunities in my field.
OK, I�ll stop rambling now and look forward to more thoughts from IV members.:o
European Union is introducing a Blue Card that will allow you to work in any of the EU coountries
Euro value is rising against dollar
Opportunities will be on the rise with strengthening the currency.
Lets run this thread for sharing views, opinions, experiences and anything related to the EU
Chanduv23: Right now it is just a proposal and as the article says, many rich European countries are not willing to take in immigrants. Forget about Asian or African immigrants, they are reluctant to let even Romanians and Bulgarians work in their countries (although they are part of EU now). Racism is much higher in many of those countries and I was recently reading an article about getting PD in Switzerland - basically communities vote in favor or against and if you are not "white" it�s very hard to get that vote.
The reason this threads interests me is because I am an Indian national married to a Bulgarian and we live and work in the US. EU is the next option for us if this GC drags on too long. Technically I can work anywhere in the EU including UK but I am not sure if it will be easy enough to find a job � America still has the best opportunities in my field.
OK, I�ll stop rambling now and look forward to more thoughts from IV members.:o
more...
makeup wallpapers for mobile samsung
pyaradesi
02-03 09:28 PM
Folks,
I am not a naysayer, I think the IV core team has done a great job of giving a voice to us.
But, there are a few questions that I am not convinced myself:
1. why remove per country quota just for EB, why not family based immigration as well?
2. what will happen after removing per country limits, what kind of numbers are we looking at? how many new PRs? What is the impact on the country,economic, social, cultural, I do care about the USA.
3. By asking legislators to remove these per country quota limits, isn't this a paradigm shift in thinking?
When I, a guy impacted by this EB backlog am not convinced, how the heck are we going to make a case to some congressman/woman? We should definitely move away from this snobbish view that EB folks are better than others, or that the USA needs the EB folks more than EB folks need the USA.
That said, I do believe that we have a humanitarian case for folks like us who are already in the queue. Educating congress about the path taken by the average EB immigrant would help. At the end of the day human life is human life even it is it Indian.
I am not a naysayer, I think the IV core team has done a great job of giving a voice to us.
But, there are a few questions that I am not convinced myself:
1. why remove per country quota just for EB, why not family based immigration as well?
2. what will happen after removing per country limits, what kind of numbers are we looking at? how many new PRs? What is the impact on the country,economic, social, cultural, I do care about the USA.
3. By asking legislators to remove these per country quota limits, isn't this a paradigm shift in thinking?
When I, a guy impacted by this EB backlog am not convinced, how the heck are we going to make a case to some congressman/woman? We should definitely move away from this snobbish view that EB folks are better than others, or that the USA needs the EB folks more than EB folks need the USA.
That said, I do believe that we have a humanitarian case for folks like us who are already in the queue. Educating congress about the path taken by the average EB immigrant would help. At the end of the day human life is human life even it is it Indian.
girlfriend wallpapers for mobile samsung
chanduv23
09-27 11:09 AM
First we come here which is completely different environment and struggle to adjust, then after 10 yrs or so, if we go back then struggle to adjust in home country.
You don't have to struggle in home country. You were born and raised there and I do not see a need to struggle.
And you are not struggling here also, you have come to pursue your dream, everyone here have jobs, we are just trying to fix a broken system here.
You don't have to struggle in home country. You were born and raised there and I do not see a need to struggle.
And you are not struggling here also, you have come to pursue your dream, everyone here have jobs, we are just trying to fix a broken system here.
hairstyles Samsung wallpapers Download
amitjoey
07-03 11:50 PM
I understand that a lot of people have a genuine concern about why we would need funds for a law-suit, especially when AILF is doing it and it wont cost members to participate.
I am not core IV member, and I do not know the right answer, so I might be wrong, but last time there was a discussion about lawsuit, and previous occasions when it was discussed, it was clear that lawsuits have to be accompanied by a simultaneous campaign of lobbying, media coverage, and buying print and radio space. If we have to make a big splash, and make it really red and dark. That will also put a lot of pressure on the concerned authorities. These related activities need $$. Again, I might be totally offbase here. Pappu can answer this.
I am not core IV member, and I do not know the right answer, so I might be wrong, but last time there was a discussion about lawsuit, and previous occasions when it was discussed, it was clear that lawsuits have to be accompanied by a simultaneous campaign of lobbying, media coverage, and buying print and radio space. If we have to make a big splash, and make it really red and dark. That will also put a lot of pressure on the concerned authorities. These related activities need $$. Again, I might be totally offbase here. Pappu can answer this.
leo2606
08-15 09:44 PM
That is true any bodys priority date before that date and cleared FBI name check, finger printing they will be given GC
What do these dates mean? If they are dates for who can apply in Sept, then all (those who could) have filed their AOS in July/August. Do they mean that in Sept 07 USCIS will be approving GC for those within these dates?
What do these dates mean? If they are dates for who can apply in Sept, then all (those who could) have filed their AOS in July/August. Do they mean that in Sept 07 USCIS will be approving GC for those within these dates?
sri1309
01-25 09:18 AM
For my part, I send an email everyday to the white house and the state dept. This is probably not enough.....but may be some day it will work.
BTW, my apologies if the members thought that this thread was accusatory. Still the question remains, what next?
Ok, I understand, no use bringing it up again, sorry, let me go back and read other interesting threads on "investments" and "buying houses"...
The issue is like a BIG bus where we all are together travelling to the same destination. And the bus is stuck in a pit. You and I can push, .. will it help?. What else do you do. You make others also come and push. So, how many people were you able to convince to do what you did.. Dont just convince them, make them also spread the message.
If you want content to be passed, there are many threads here. One is mine, which is "chain reaction..). Its now buried somewhere :(.
I know some people do realize things only when they loose their jobs or when its too late. If realization happens only that way, I wish all of you those not participating actively loose their jobs and hence comes realization that will help you and us all. Hope that happens very fast..
"Agar booth lathon se hi soon sakthe hai, tho lathon hi sahi..".. How my quote on 10..
BTW, my apologies if the members thought that this thread was accusatory. Still the question remains, what next?
Ok, I understand, no use bringing it up again, sorry, let me go back and read other interesting threads on "investments" and "buying houses"...
The issue is like a BIG bus where we all are together travelling to the same destination. And the bus is stuck in a pit. You and I can push, .. will it help?. What else do you do. You make others also come and push. So, how many people were you able to convince to do what you did.. Dont just convince them, make them also spread the message.
If you want content to be passed, there are many threads here. One is mine, which is "chain reaction..). Its now buried somewhere :(.
I know some people do realize things only when they loose their jobs or when its too late. If realization happens only that way, I wish all of you those not participating actively loose their jobs and hence comes realization that will help you and us all. Hope that happens very fast..
"Agar booth lathon se hi soon sakthe hai, tho lathon hi sahi..".. How my quote on 10..